Curse

KingCrab · Jun 17, 2011, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Edit: Been changing my build based on comments and testing. Current build is now in this (same) thread here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=15

and current questions are in this (same) thread here:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=20

Thanks everyone for the advice!

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So I've been doing okay with the following setup, just took Rotscale on hard earlier. I think I could still do a lot better.

Me DS/SY Warrior:
OQITEZKbHyw6qYxR0jvaqJmUuEA

Razah Channelling Rit with Resto backup:
OACjEyiLpRXTlTSTTOdiYMVTLTA

Xandra Offensive Communing Rit:
OAWjMMgMJPO7v5m7sl5i2WTnJA

Livia MM with Prot:
OANDUstvRyBUBbh4BKgVV1DBEA

Master of Whispers Curses Nec with Prot:
OANDY8x/I1cZYJfCis71TAB

Olias Resto Healer:
OAhiYwhMZtVVNOV9wJKNNMN5AA

Nogru Illusion Mes:
OQhDAWwTSvArAIg5ZEBZA9AXMA

Gwen Domination Mes:
OQJUASBPS8M0gcARY6lB6B3UZAA

GW team builder is telling me the link is no longer active, so I can't make this as pretty as I'd like, but I did make everything clickable links.

I'm think my illusion mesmer needs the most improvement. Gwen probably needs help too. I also think the classes I've chosen seem to be working well together(meaning I'm doing okay with no monk or paragon), I'm just not sure which skills to switch out and which skills to put in.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 17, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

*Needs SoH.
*I'd prefer Brawling Headbutt over PI.
*Essence Strike is meh. Damage is meaningless and the energy return is negligible. Swap it for Spirit Siphon if you want the energy. If you're speccing Resto I'd fit in PwK too.
*Two copies of Prot Spirit isn't particularly helpful. I'd swap the one on the MM to SoA.
*There are better options than Icy Veins. I tend to throw in Pain of Disenchantment, though SS or Feast of Corruption work too (that said, I don't usually run curses elites).
*Some hex removal would be nice, though whether you need it will be dependant on the area.

mathiastemplar · Jun 18, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

I would run Shared Burden over Ineptitude - I find heroes doens't run Ineptitude too good.

Strength of Honor would also be a good idea.

Drop PI for Asuran Scan, since you're playing Melee.

Anaraky · Jun 18, 2011, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Agree with everything Marty said, but regarding your mesmers: You have too many interrupts, when you have that many heroes tend to fire several at once thus wasting energy instead of gaining it. This goes doubly with Panic, look into Waste Not, Want Not or Drain Delusions. Heroes also don't use the Wastrels spells in a great manner, you can use Spiritual Pain as a substitute.

My 2c.

jensyea · Jun 18, 2011, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Dont use SS with mesmers, FoC or pain or disenchantment works good. Besides that just what marty said.

But even if you don't change it, you'll be able to roll trough most areas without trouble.

Olle · Jun 18, 2011, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Regarding the MM, sure they make an great wall, but walls dont do damage.
remove Blood of the master and add in Death Nova!

KingCrab · Jun 19, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

*Needs SoH.

I feel guilty using Strength of Honor. Yes, it's fun to do more damage but I'd rather have a stronger all around group than a group designed to make my character more fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

*I'd prefer Brawling Headbutt over PI.

Took this advice but by taking out 'finish him' instead. Brawling Headbutt is working out really nice. I figure knockdowns aren't that important, since they don't actually interrupt, but it's fun to get some damage out of my extra adrenaline.

Wanted to keep PI since it's so important for blowing up mages when they do manage to get a spell off (despite my mesmers.) Maybe I don't really need it though in Gwen and Nogru do their jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

*Essence Strike is meh. Damage is meaningless and the energy return is negligible. Swap it for Spirit Siphon if you want the energy. If you're speccing Resto I'd fit in PwK too.

I do want the energy which is why I have it. I imagine having a second PwK might be worth some changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

*Two copies of Prot Spirit isn't particularly helpful. I'd swap the one on the MM to SoA.

I'm guessing this is cause the enemies often focus on one character at a time? I don't see them both going off together often, so I think this is a great suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

*There are better options than Icy Veins. I tend to throw in Pain of Disenchantment, though SS or Feast of Corruption work too (that said, I don't usually run curses elites).

My mesmers get a bit of their energy from removing disenchantments, so I don't want to toss PoD in. Feat of Corruption sounds weak to me since the recharge is 20 and the damage isn't so high, wouldn't Icy Veins be a lot stronger than this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

*Some hex removal would be nice, though whether you need it will be dependant on the area.

Took your advice and squeezed this on Gwen.

Thanks for all the advice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kajusbonus

Regarding the MM, sure they make an great wall, but walls dont do damage.
remove Blood of the master and add in Death Nova!

I'm scared of letting go of the defensive wall, but I'll definitely give it a try. Does the hero AI work well with Death Nova? I guess if the weakest minions were the ones targeted this could be really good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jensyea

Dont use SS with mesmers, FoC or pain or disenchantment works good. Besides that just what marty said.

I originally had SS but learned not to, especially with the double mesmers. Mostly I want curses for things like mark of pain, barbs and shadow of fear, not for the elite which I guess causes a dilemma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaraky

Agree with everything Marty said, but regarding your mesmers: You have too many interrupts, when you have that many heroes tend to fire several at once thus wasting energy instead of gaining it. This goes doubly with Panic, look into Waste Not, Want Not or Drain Delusions. Heroes also don't use the Wastrels spells in a great manner, you can use Spiritual Pain as a substitute.

My 2c.

I hadn't heard of this before. Does this only come into play when the interrupts are spread between more than one hero? Like one enemy begins casting and the two different heroes both interrupt the same skill? That makes a lot of sense. I've seen waste not want not on a lot of skill bars and it didn't seem as good to me, but now I'll add it. Drain delusions sounds like it might et rid of stuff I need though. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

Drop PI for Asuran Scan, since you're playing Melee.

Haven't tried this since it changed. Being able to hit more would help me keep DS up, so this sounds like a good idea if I can get away without the caster nuke.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 20, 2011, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

I feel guilty using Strength of Honor. Yes, it's fun to do more damage but I'd rather have a stronger all around group than a group designed to make my character more fun.

What's there to feel guilty about? It's AI lol. You'll generally be better off by customising your team to what you need rather than not prioritising synergy. For reference, [email protected] Smiting, assuming a fast attacking weapon and a 33% IAS adds 20.8DPS. That's definitely worth bringing if you can fit it in.

Quote:

Took this advice but by taking out 'finish him' instead. Brawling Headbutt is working out really nice. I figure knockdowns aren't that important, since they don't actually interrupt, but it's fun to get some damage out of my extra adrenaline.

Wanted to keep PI since it's so important for blowing up mages when they do manage to get a spell off (despite my mesmers.) Maybe I don't really need it though in Gwen and Nogru do their jobs.

Eh. Not sure I'd agree with that. I'm not a fan of PI. You can perma KD anything you like with DSlash so tough targets aren't going to get anything off anyway (so it's kind of like an interrupt, probably better), regardless of what else is in your team. The ease of suppressing foes nowadays really makes it hard to recommend a place for PI.

Quote:

I do want the energy which is why I have it. I imagine having a second PwK might be worth some changes.

Essence Strike doesn't provide energy though. Some numbers:

Assuming 16 Channeling (doesn't matter if this applies to you, it's the best case scenario) and that ES is used on recharge (which probably isn't the case).

ES returns 10e (5e profit) every 9 seconds, which is 0.556e/second.
1 energy pip is worth 1e every 3 seconds, which is 0.333e/second.
So ES is equivalent to about 1.5 energy pips, which really isn't remarkable.

Spirit Siphon returns 16e (11e profit) every 3 seconds, which is 3.667e/second.
1 energy pip is worth 1e every 3 seconds, which is 0.333e/second.
So SS is equivalent to about 11 energy pips, which is 7.33 times more effective in terms of energy management than ES.

In fairness, SS doesn't always perform optimally due to the energy level of the spirit siphoned, but when it's that much more effective it more than makes up for it.

Quote:

My mesmers get a bit of their energy from removing disenchantments, so I don't want to toss PoD in. Feat of Corruption sounds weak to me since the recharge is 20 and the damage isn't so high, wouldn't Icy Veins be a lot stronger than this?

Fair enough on PoD. FoC is more a playstyle thing. EFGJack likes it because it fits for him. It probably isn't worth using unless you're working to optimising it. That doesn't change the fact IV is unimpressive though. Remember it's cold damage, so it's armor respecting. Try thinking outside the box.

Quote:

I'm scared of letting go of the defensive wall, but I'll definitely give it a try. Does the hero AI work well with Death Nova? I guess if the weakest minions were the ones targeted this could be really good.

There's some conflicting advice here. Decide whether you want a Minion Master (MM) who aims to have powerful minions or a Minion Bomber (MB) who aims to create an exploding minion wall. An MM should never have Death Nova on their bar. They'll be working on raising more expensive minions (bone fiends and vamp horrors), keeping them alive, and hitting Order of Undeath when they can. An MB will be raising bone minions and using them as targets for Death Nova.

Quote:

Haven't tried this since it changed. Being able to hit more would help me keep DS up, so this sounds like a good idea if I can get away without the caster nuke.

I definitely wouldn't say you should staple AScan to your bar like you used to. Imo it's useful where there's a lot of melee hate, but there are better things to do with PvE skill slots, especially now that we've got 7 heroes and lots of space for cond/hex removal.

KingCrab · Jun 20, 2011, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

What's there to feel guilty about? It's AI lol. You'll generally be better off by customising your team to what you need rather than not prioritising synergy. For reference, [email protected] Smiting, assuming a fast attacking weapon and a 33% IAS adds 20.8DPS. That's definitely worth bringing if you can fit it in.

The mana upkeep while the enchatment is active gives me second thoughts. I do use a sword, but getting to 10 smite with one of these heroes would take a bit away from something else as well. I could get rid of someone and just toss in the RoJ smiter with it, but I don't think it's worth doing something that drastic. Splinter weapon is a better fit.

I kind of see my warrior's role as protective (keeping SY up) and don't think too much about damage. (I wish I had done Paragon instead, so I could protect and use command spells for the spirits, but I'm quite established in faction and other things.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Eh. Not sure I'd agree with that. I'm not a fan of PI. You can perma KD anything you like with DSlash so tough targets aren't going to get anything off anyway (so it's kind of like an interrupt, probably better), regardless of what else is in your team. The ease of suppressing foes nowadays really makes it hard to recommend a place for PI.

I definitely doubt I have the timing for that knockdown trick, but I guess I could practice it. Would there be time to hit SY too under those circumstances? In any case, I have lots of adrenaline, and I'll keep the headbutt regardless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Essence Strike doesn't provide energy though. Some numbers:

Assuming 16 Channeling (doesn't matter if this applies to you, it's the best case scenario) and that ES is used on recharge (which probably isn't the case).

ES returns 10e (5e profit) every 9 seconds, which is 0.556e/second.
1 energy pip is worth 1e every 3 seconds, which is 0.333e/second.
So ES is equivalent to about 1.5 energy pips, which really isn't remarkable.

Spirit Siphon returns 16e (11e profit) every 3 seconds, which is 3.667e/second.
1 energy pip is worth 1e every 3 seconds, which is 0.333e/second.
So SS is equivalent to about 11 energy pips, which is 7.33 times more effective in terms of energy management than ES.

In fairness, SS doesn't always perform optimally due to the energy level of the spirit siphoned, but when it's that much more effective it more than makes up for it.

You've convinced me! I'm trying PwK in it's place right now, testing to see if I have the energy. Is the damage lost while holding onto the urns for spells like PwK worth considering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Fair enough on PoD. FoC is more a playstyle thing. EFGJack likes it because it fits for him. It probably isn't worth using unless you're working to optimising it. That doesn't change the fact IV is unimpressive though. Remember it's cold damage, so it's armor respecting. Try thinking outside the box.

I guess Divert Hexes might be worth it vs the right crowds if I put a bit more into protection (meaning bringing it to 4

). With Curses and Soul Reaping as my main attributes, there aren't too many good choices. I'll try to stay away from IV though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

There's some conflicting advice here. Decide whether you want a Minion Master (MM) who aims to have powerful minions or a Minion Bomber (MB) who aims to create an exploding minion wall. An MM should never have Death Nova on their bar. They'll be working on raising more expensive minions (bone fiends and vamp horrors), keeping them alive, and hitting Order of Undeath when they can. An MB will be raising bone minions and using them as targets for Death Nova.

I like the defensive nature of the MM, though I like Aura of the Lich for the instant army in the middle of the battle effect. I'm assuming having strong minions without OoU on the bar is worth it enough just for defensive purposes. I'll keep away from Nova unless I decide to go bombing.

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 20, 2011, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

The mana upkeep while the enchatment is active gives me second thoughts. I do use a sword, but getting to 10 smite with one of these heroes would take a bit away from something else as well. I could get rid of someone and just toss in the RoJ smiter with it, but I don't think it's worth doing something that drastic. Splinter weapon is a better fit.

1 energy pip isn't a big deal if it's in an appropriate place. I ran an N/Mo smiter a while back and it could maintain 3 copies and spam Judge's Insight and RoJ (as well as cheap stuff like Smite Hex/Cond) on recharge. You just need to find a place for it. The SoS could work. Another option would be to drop Putrid Bile from the MM in exchange for SoA, then put some smites on the curser. Yet another option would be dropping the N/Rt healer for an E/Mo.

Splinter Weapon is massively powerful, but it's not mutually exclusive with SoH.

Quote:

I kind of see my warrior's role as protective (keeping SY up) and don't think too much about damage. (I wish I had done Paragon instead, so I could protect and use command spells for the spirits, but I'm quite established in faction and other things.)

If you don't care about damage, War probably wasn't the best choice. Anyway, you don't need to play defensively in order to keep SY up. FGJ+auto attacking will do the job. Remember, the best way for you to protect your team is to simply kill everything.

Quote:

I definitely doubt I have the timing for that knockdown trick, but I guess I could practice it. Would there be time to hit SY too under those circumstances? In any case, I have lots of adrenaline, and I'll keep the headbutt regardless.

-It's not really a timing thing. Hit DSlash twice then BH if you need it. SY whenever you need it. It's not like you'll instantly wipe if you don't manage to suppress every single thing. Part of being a good player is recognising the situation and how people/AI are likely to react, so knowing when to fire a KD and whatnot is worthwhile.

Quote:

You've convinced me! I'm trying PwK in it's place right now, testing to see if I have the energy. Is the damage lost while holding onto the urns for spells like PwK worth considering?

The thing with PwK is that it's an item spell. You won't get staff benefits (i.e, the energy) while holding it. I'd still try to fit in some e management to ensure there's energy when it's needed. The damage from ES is trivial (to be specific, it's 5 DPS assuming that it's cast on recharge and armor takes off 25%).

Quote:

I guess Divert Hexes might be worth it vs the right crowds if I put a bit more into protection (meaning bringing it to 4

). With Curses and Soul Reaping as my main attributes, there aren't too many good choices. I'll try to stay away from IV though.

Actually Divert Hexes isn't a bad option. I thought it was Divine too but evidently not. Might want to look at other options for low hex areas. It's worth pumping Prot up past 4 though. At least a 12/11/6 split. It's a shame the 3 hex breakpoint is at 12. If you want a cleaning elite, Empathic Removal (and Signet of Removal, to a lesser extent) is another good option.

Quote:

I like the defensive nature of the MM, though I like Aura of the Lich for the instant army in the middle of the battle effect. I'm assuming having strong minions without OoU on the bar is worth it enough just for defensive purposes. I'll keep away from Nova unless I decide to go bombing.

I've really only run bombers to any meaningful extent so it's hard for me to make judgements, but given how much damage OoU provides I'd question what you're getting in exchange. +1 Death, stronger horror production, probably less energy pressure, and definitely less health pressure. Play around with it perhaps and see what you think.

kaylaaka · Jun 20, 2011, 06:53 AM // 06:53

I would use PI over Panic.

if you are adamant on using panic then make space for Frustration on your illusions bar. (100 damage per skill interupt or 50 damage per interupt stacks quite alot)

The problems i have with ANY non necro healer is when ran with a MM on the battle field they will waste a lot of energy to heal the minions.

Big fan of direct hexes specially in EoTn.

Remember that with PwK or any item spell makes your heroes tend to be more defensive.
I'd remove recuperation and put PwK on both healers since they use it wisely doing a aoe spike from ele bosses.

Anaraky · Jun 20, 2011, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

I hadn't heard of this before. Does this only come into play when the interrupts are spread between more than one hero? Like one enemy begins casting and the two different heroes both interrupt the same skill? That makes a lot of sense. I've seen waste not want not on a lot of skill bars and it didn't seem as good to me, but now I'll add it. Drain delusions sounds like it might et rid of stuff I need though. Thanks!

Sorry for the delayed response, have been somewhat busy the last few days. Anyway, yes you guessed correctly. Heroes don't know when some other source are going to interrupt a mob (either another hero or skills like Panic) and can sometimes waste their interrupt because of that. It isn't a huge deal but something to keep in mind if you are using Panic and/or a lot of interrupt based e-management.

Also it is common using a cheap short CD hex (Overload, for example) coupled with Drain Delusions to cover up other hexes such as Panic etc. It still isn't in everyone's taste though which is cool, totally based on player preference.

Anyway, good luck!

KingCrab · Jul 25, 2011, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaylaaka

I would use PI over Panic.
The problems i have with ANY non necro healer is when ran with a MM on the battle field they will waste a lot of energy to heal the minions.

This is something I should probably understand. So the main profession affects how the hero uses the skill bar? Or is it just that the necro healers have other stuff to do (rather than just healing) so they don't spam heal spells at minions all day?

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

1 energy pip isn't a big deal if it's in an appropriate place. I ran an N/Mo smiter a while back and it could maintain 3 copies and spam Judge's Insight and RoJ (as well as cheap stuff like Smite Hex/Cond) on recharge. You just need to find a place for it. The SoS could work. Another option would be to drop Putrid Bile from the MM in exchange for SoA, then put some smites on the curser. Yet another option would be dropping the N/Rt healer for an E/Mo.

I've been experimenting with dropping out the N/Rt healer with other classes, including an E/Me third mesmer and a P/Mo. I've been using the P/Mo in that Nec slot a lot lately, since it is very nice on the spirits though with "go for the eyes" and "anthem of envy". . Perhaps on the P/Mo SoH would work, though with a need for leadership (for energy) command (for skills) and spear mastery (to attack) there might not be that many points left for smite. If I can squeeze it in at say rank 9 smite, would it be worth it for the 17 damage? Even with splinter, the 17 damage would only apply to one of the opponents being hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

If you don't care about damage, War probably wasn't the best choice.

True. I chose it long ago and I'm at 38/50 on the GW Calculator for the HoM so I'm sticking with it as my main (and I guess I do benefit from Raptor farming which is nice during holidays.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

The thing with PwK is that it's an item spell. You won't get staff benefits (i.e, the energy) while holding it. I'd still try to fit in some e management to ensure there's energy when it's needed. The damage from ES is trivial (to be specific, it's 5 DPS assuming that it's cast on recharge and armor takes off 25%).

ES is gone for good. I have been talked out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Actually Divert Hexes isn't a bad option. I thought it was Divine too but evidently not. Might want to look at other options for low hex areas. It's worth pumping Prot up past 4 though. At least a 12/11/6 split. It's a shame the 3 hex breakpoint is at 12. If you want a cleaning elite, Empathic Removal (and Signet of Removal, to a lesser extent) is another good option.

I've been going between my P/Mo and my curses Nec for who gets to play party cleaner with their elite. I really don't have an elite I'm happy with for my P/Mo either which means I always end up with one character (of those two) with an elite I don't like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

I've really only run bombers to any meaningful extent so it's hard for me to make judgements, but given how much damage OoU provides I'd question what you're getting in exchange. +1 Death, stronger horror production, probably less energy pressure, and definitely less health pressure. Play around with it perhaps and see what you think.

I've switched over to bombers, especially after hearing that healers waste too much energy healing minions. I did consider the tradeoff from OoU, and I still like Aura of the Lich better when I go defensive with my minions.

One thing I would like is a way to fit disease into the picture. I have weakness and cracked armor (curses Nec) blindness (illusion mesmer) poison and bleeding (death nec) and deep wound and burning (when I use P/Mo.) I think that disease would be a great addition, especially when I'm doing something like Glint's, where the is no condition removal. I'm noticing there isn't any cheap way to do disease. Putrid Flesh is not recommended for heroes in the description (says they don't use it well.) Rotting Flesh is costly and with a 3 sec recharge, not what I want on my energy taxed death nec (responsible for minion bombing -and- keeping aegis and prot spirit going.) Tainted Flesh also seems like an energy and cast time drain since the hero tries to put it on everyone which leaves Virulence. Virulence is not bad, but I have the other conditions and the duration is low unless Death magic is high. (Thus it might be hard to put on my curses nec or P/Mo.) One option might be signet of infection in the pain inverter slot on my main though I do have to wait until the bleeding is already applied. Any suggestions about the best way to maintain disease might be helpful as well.

PurpleFlamingo · Jul 25, 2011, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I went through and started to change some stuff around but it ended up turning into something very similar to the build I run. I've posted that team build below. If you're intent on running an SoGM rit, go for it. The main thing I changed was taking out a bunch of excessive healing in your original build. One thing I've been thinking about changing in the build below is changing Smite Hex for Smite Condition. FoC or PoD are both stronger than IV on your curses necro, imo.

War - OQASEZKT9F7gTNGW0kieXF8V
ESurge - OQNEI8gg2ycCmemuhQOgIkBQj
Panic - OQNEI8gg2yQDmemuhQOgIkBQj
Ineptitude - OQlkYeDYADg0LwKQeGCIJwyXGwOG
AotL Prot - OANDY4rFTyBVBKgoBbh3V1DBE
FoC Curses - OAljYqG4BPXC2wnwOYJwx14dM
IV Resto - OAhiYwh8UzqqSzJX0sZPMHn
SoS Smite - OAOj4wiM5MXzyZ10bixYmuk5B

KingCrab · Jul 26, 2011, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Since I'm still begging for advice, here's my current build with the changes applied. (Also my 1st attempt at using Pawned.)

loopysnoopy · Jul 26, 2011, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Sofar with the 7h update many heros don't have a saved spot of my team rosta no more

Atm this is what I'm using in elona Vq's (HM) and (HM) dungeons too. Not that much of a pit fall but its obtained me R1 Surviour easy...

Daesu · Jul 26, 2011, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jensyea

Dont use SS with mesmers,

I don't see why not. Just because he brings 2 mesmers doesn't imply that ALL attacks+skills would be interrupted. Panic has down time, assumes clumping, and does not affect normal attacks. The other skills that affect normal attacks cannot be maintained, so most of these should be getting through.

KingCrab · Jul 26, 2011, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I'm not so much looking for other builds as I am a way to tweak by build a little bit. Main issues are still listed in my last post with text:

1. Whether or not SoH is worth the cost (attribute points in smite in a hero and use of the slot)
2. Better ways to fit disease in or whether I should give up on that completely.
3. What to do with the elites on the Para and Curse Nec

I'm not looking for something radically different, just ways to improve the existing setup.

----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I don't see why not. Just because he brings 2 mesmers doesn't imply that ALL attacks+skills would be interrupted. Panic has down time, assumes clumping, and does not affect normal attacks. The other skills that affect normal attacks cannot be maintained, so most of these should be getting through.

I think I did notice SS being a bit less efficient with the double mesmers. This is why I have the Resto weapon spell in the elite slot for my curse nec now, but I'm not too sure about that.

loopysnoopy · Jul 26, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingCrab

I'm not so much looking for other builds as I am a way to tweak by build a little bit. Main issues are still listed in my last post with text:

1. Whether or not SoH is worth the cost (attribute points in smite in a hero and use of the slot)

Re-faring to my post I would definitely drop the mesmers YES there all powerful but to me a warrior is there to be used as A weapon of mass destruction non of the namby pamby way of oh I need to be spamming Sy take the advantages that the warriors have been granted; SoH on any hero either SoS,Smite monk or even your necros can use it.

Splinter weapon and GftE's is welcomed as well on your heros but we all have our ways of playing so don't take too much into my rantings.

KingCrab · Jul 27, 2011, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Or to phrase things better:

1. Is Strength of Honor worth the cost, and where to put it?
If I do spend points in smite on a character, is it worth it to take smite hex for hex removal and maybe RoJ as the elite (if it's the paragon or curse nec, the only two characters with an elite I'm not happy with.) I know RoJ causes scattering, which might be really bad given that I have so many AoE mesmer hexes and effects. It's probably best to keep away from anything that scatters foes. I just like the idea of putting a better elite on one of those two characters. (I also realize I'd have to change the curse nec's healing from Rit healing to Monk healing, but the price might be worth it.) Also if I add smite hex I won't need a cleaner elite, which still leaves me with the problem of what elites to use on my paragon and curse Nec.

2. How beneficial is disease here?
It's the nice condition I don't have going for me. I explain my problems with each of the Necromancer disease skills in my response to Marty above, so I think if I want it I need to spread it taking up two skills in my warrior bar. I guess that if I have enough minions causing bleeding I could drop the sever part and replace with Gash for deep wound and disease, though the paragon is already good at spreading deep wound with "Find Their Weakness"

3. What are the best elites for my Paragon and Curses Nec?
My main issue.

4. How important are barbs and Mark of Pain in a build of this type?
I took them out when I realized they only triggered on physical damage. Keep in mind that my only sources of physical damage are from my warrior, my paragon and the minions. Since I've now gone minion bomber, I rarely have a full flock. Should I include neither, both or just one, and if one then which? I'd either have to give up on some curses or healing to include them. How much physical do you need before these skills really do start paying off?

5. How much of a boost does GftE really have on spirits?
I understand spirits and anthem of envy, they use attack skills so the damage adds on. With GftE it causes criticals, which are maximum damage times a multiplier. Yet spirits don't seem to have a damage range, they just seem to do set damage. (For example a spirit of pain at lvl 15 does 30 flat damage every hit.) So it seems they are losing out on a big part of the bonus that comes from a crit. They still get the 1.4 multiplier though, which is nice. I'm just not as sure about this skill as I was before.